The AA chief explains how the ethnic army’s political wing is gradually reasserting administrative control over its homeland, Rakhine State, while coordinating with revolutionary groups nationwide to replace junta rule with a civilian confederation.
Aung Zaw: Resistance groups are steadily gaining control in Kayah (Karenni) and Karen states, with the notable exception of Loikaw. These groups are beginning to provide effective local governance, justice, healthcare, and education for the communities they serve. External organizations are also increasingly offering support in these efforts. Likewise, in Rakhine, the Arakan Army is expanding its jurisdiction over territory and the local population. Given these developments, how are you addressing challenges related to governance, justice, healthcare, and education in regions you control?
Tun Myat Naing: Under the ceasefire before clashes resumed in 2023, we established the Arakan Authority to handle general governance and public affairs. This team oversees services such as healthcare, the judiciary, and policing. We also founded the Arakan Public Policy and Administration school to nurture our youth and improve the systematic functioning of our government. However, continuous clashes and seizures of towns have disrupted the former government’s systems and public services, presenting significant challenges during this transitional period.
Despite the presence of schools, teachers, and willing parents, we are unable to reopen schools due to ongoing security concerns. The junta’s air force has been indiscriminately bombing both military and civilian targets in areas we control, necessitating the suspension of school activities to ensure student safety.
In terms of healthcare, we are facing shortages of medical supplies despite assistance from certain organizations, which must remain anonymous. Amid these challenges, our people are using every available resource to procure medical supplies and provide treatment for patients.
AZ: You said the AA is operating not only in Rakhine but also elsewhere across the country. You mentioned Karen State, and we have witnessed AA action in southern Chin State. The AA is also reinforcing KIA and KNU territory as well as northern Shan State, though Rakhine State is your main area of operation. So, what is your ultimate aim?
TMN: In Myanmar, most revolutionary forces are being driven by their own ethnic agendas. However, after 70 years of civil conflict, it has become clear that focusing solely on one ethnic goal will not lead to a comprehensive victory. Even if we were to drive junta troops from all our territories, they would only retreat temporarily.
Currently, we lack political stability and need to establish military security.
Initially, our efforts were centered on Rakhine’s national interest, but working with various allies across Myanmar has given us a clearer perspective on the situation. We have come to realize that we are not alone in our struggles. Alongside our “Way of Rakhita,” we have been collaborating with many allies, addressing both our local needs in Rakhine and supporting our partners in their territories as we confront a common enemy.
Despite the ethnic and border disputes that exist between various Myanmar groups, we share a unifying factor: the oppressive junta military council. This common enemy presents an opportunity for unity. We must leverage this shared cause to effect meaningful change. In Chin State, although there have been conflicts and disputes, we are working carefully to resolve these issues.
AZ: It’s evident that the Arakan Army (AA) has broad ambitions. You’re not only focused on Rakhine State but also envisioning a strategy for the entire country. But the AA has consistently advocated for a confederation. Is that right, General?
TMN: Our perspective encompasses both local and national levels. On a local scale, limiting ourselves to our immediate ambitions without considering the broader context would undermine our success. We must adopt a holistic view that accounts for the entire union and our surrounding environment. It’s crucial to balance all factors and act promptly. Building alliances and partnerships is essential – not only with ethnic minorities but also with the majority ethnic Burmese. The Bamar majority are a fundamental force for change. We need to address their needs, build mutual trust, and enhance cooperation. Only then can we collectively achieve the transformation we seek.
It’s impossible to make everyone entirely happy, but we must first address existing issues before we can implement effective systems. Regarding the confederation that Rakhine has been advocating, we are serious about this. There is no inconsistency in our actions, even if we are engaged in conflicts elsewhere in Myanmar with our allies. What we are doing aligns with our political beliefs.
While our operations are focused on our people’s interests, establishing freedom for all ethnic groups is equally important. We must pursue these dual goals in parallel. Post-revolution, our shared objective for us and other ethnic groups, including Burmese, is to avoid falling under any form of fascist dictatorship. Although we don’t yet have a definitive solution, we must remain positive and practical, fostering cooperation and mutual understanding despite the challenges we face.
AZ: Looking ahead to 2025, your own viewpoints differ from those of certain other revolutionary forces. Meanwhile, the junta has announced plans to hold an election in 2025. Do you believe an election is feasible?
TMN: Min Aung Hlaing needs an escape route. If I were in his position, I would likely seek support from neighboring countries to facilitate my escape. However, it remains to be seen whether he will succeed or falter midway. Given the current circumstances, it seems highly unlikely that the election will succeed. If his allies’ strategy proves effective, he might manage to hold an election and present a facade of quasi-democracy to secure his own survival. Even now, he continues to convene numerous National Defense and Security Council meetings to extend his military rule beyond what is outlined in the constitution. He knows that as long as he has guns, he can bypass the actual laws. He will continue to fight for his survival, one way or another.
AZ: From an international perspective, since the 2021 coup, ethnic forces, ethnic armed organizations (EAOs), ethnic resistance organizations (EROs), and newly emerged groups like the People’s Defense Forces (PDFs) have carried the revolution into its fourth year. International reports and analysis often speculate that if the junta is overthrown, Myanmar might fragment into chaos and anarchy resembling the balkanization seen elsewhere. Despite this, the revolution maintains strong momentum. Those sympathetic to the junta present the situation as impossibly complex and are actively working to undermine the revolution. Some even move the goalposts, shifting their assessments and objectives every few weeks. What are your thoughts on this situation?
TMN: The concerns about Myanmar’s potential balkanization following the destruction of the junta military are based on a particular perspective. Instead of speculating about what might happen if the junta is overthrown, we should focus on the current impact of the military’s presence, which is causing significant harm to the country. The immediate effects are clear: ethnic groups are suffering, and the Burmese are embroiled in civil conflict. This turmoil is a direct consequence of the junta’s existence.
The term “Union of Myanmar” often seems more of a formality than a reflection of reality. In practice, what we have today is merely a nominal union. The military, instead of serving as a unifying force, operates with an outdated, feudalistic mindset, driven by extremism and nationalism rather than a genuine commitment to a federal union. It behaves like a remnant of a bygone era, lacking the necessary ideology, doctrine, and structure to protect and uphold a true union. Historically, the term “union” in Myanmar’s context harkens back to the colonial practices of ancient Bamar kings, who used military power to annex and control other regions.
Modern Myanmar is a colonial legacy. Upon gaining independence, we needed a union military with a progressive ideology, sound doctrine, and effective leadership to establish a genuine union. Instead, the current military fronts as a union force but operates with fascist, nationalist, and supremacist tendencies, oppressing other ethnic groups. This harmful ideology is like a horror movie, where a vampire grows stronger by killing and feeding on people, resulting in hurting the whole family. Homes are being reduced to ashes because of this destructive vampire.
Rather than worrying about the potential fragmentation of the country after the junta’s fall, we need to address the dire situation we face today. It’s essential to focus on the immediate issues and determine the steps necessary for meaningful change.
AZ: Before we conclude, could you share your view on how the current junta’s military differs from the Myanmar military of the 1960s and 1970s? We’ve witnessed frequent changes in the post of Navy Commander-in-Chief over a short period, prompting our Editorial Talk to describe the military as lapsing into chaos and nearly in ruins. As a commander actively engaged in this conflict, what is your opinion?
TMN: We have conducted detailed military analyses on these issues. Since the conflict is ongoing, I won’t go into detail. However, I can share that in northern Shan State and Kachin State, the junta army is still receiving air support, but their morale is very low.
Comparing the current junta army to the Myanmar military of the 1960s is not straightforward. Each era has its own set of advantages. Back then, there was more public support and less corruption compared with today. However, the current military benefits from more advanced technology and weaponry. Their air force, navy, resources, and manpower are significantly greater. We were surprised by the sheer volume of weapons they possess, which we hadn’t anticipated before the major clashes. Their technology has evolved considerably since the earlier period.
The former army had stronger leadership, morale, ethics, and discipline. Today’s army, led mostly by officers from the Defense Services Academy, tends to exhibit behavior more akin to that of greedy businesspeople rather than dedicated soldiers. These officers often prioritize personal gain over genuine patriotism and ethical service. This lack of integrity is detrimental to the country. In battlegrounds like northern Shan State, the army was making more money than in Rakhine or Chin states, yet it often struggled to fight effectively, focusing on saving its wealth and families rather than on the conflict itself.
Each state has its unique circumstances. In Rakhine, for example, the army receives artillery support from the navy. Although we are adversaries, I have observed some commanders defend their positions heroically, even to the point of death. They are the enemy, but their bravery in battle is something we acknowledge with respect.
But eventually they will all lose. Despite their advanced technology, they are relying heavily on new recruits conscripted by force. As a result, they are suffering significant casualties across the board.
AZ: You mentioned earlier that you received a “substantial donation” from the regime’s defense industries, including ammunition, RPGs, and other weaponry.
TMN: They have been trying to hinder our efforts to build relations with neighboring countries like China and India by defaming us. For instance, they told China that the AA is receiving weapons from the United States. In India, they’ve also tried to depict us as a threat to their interests. They told China that the AA has modern weapons from America, supposedly coming through the Thai border. When they engage with officials from Thailand, the US, or Vietnam, they claim that we are merely pawns of China and they seek their assistance to counter China’s influence. They’ve also requested funding and technological support from the Drugs Enforcement Agency, alleging that the AA is financed by drug money. They’ve returned to India, repeating that we are a Chinese pawn operating near the Indian border and asking for India’s help to eliminate us.
We are also working to establish relations with these countries. When asked where we acquired such extensive weaponry, I explained that the junta army inadvertently contributed to our arsenal. Other resistance forces are also growing stronger due to this support from the junta. So it’s true: they have indeed provided substantial assistance.
AZ: What kinds of help?
TMN: Do you want me to discuss the assistance from the junta army?
AZ: Just to clarify for our readers.
TMN: Although they are our enemies, they don’t act as enemies in every respect. When they retreat hastily, they often leave behind a significant amount of ammunition, which, in a way, makes them an unintended ally. When I asked our Karenni allies about their surplus ammunition, they humorously referred to it as “dog’s bullets.” They give a rather endearing name to the bullets. I understand that you are fond for dogs – I share that affection and have adopted many myself. So I have to emphasize that I don’t want to insult dogs.
AZ: Yep, I have a deep love for dogs too and would never want them to be insulted.
We have just one or two questions left. Senior General Than Shwe betrayed the country and oppressed its people, while Senior General Min Aung Hlaing is also a Defense Services Academy graduate. What are your thoughts on these two eras?
TMN: When discussing the rulers of the country, there are various aspects to consider. Despite Min Aung Hlaing’s transformation into a dictator driven by his thirst for power, he likely desires the country’s prosperity, even though his methods and decisions are flawed. Under Than Shwe’s rule, brutality was used to suppress adversaries and maintain power. Nevertheless, he did undertake some beneficial actions.
Regarding our revolutionary success, I don’t believe it solely hinges on the dictator’s competency. A person who rules through military might isn’t entirely inept. However, Min Aung Hlaing’s brutality has led to grave injustices, such as university students being shot and killed on the streets under his orders. Despite his soft-spoken demeanor, he is far from weak.
The key differences lie in generational and technological shifts. Today’s generation has the advantage of learning from the mistakes and experiences of Than Shwe’s era while leveraging modern technology to mobilize and apply their knowledge. These younger individuals have experienced a decade of democracy and witnessed our efforts as the Brotherhood Alliance against the dictator. When the coup occurred, they realized what it takes for a revolution. They are using technology to their advantage.
As these youths began to mobilize for revolution, resistance forces like ours, the KIO, and others have assisted and guided them through the process, despite some setbacks. We have created many opportunities amid this turmoil. In 1988, exiled students made mistakes during the crisis, and we did our best to steer them away from mismanagement. Now, we are reaping the benefits of those efforts. I believe we will see more significant actions in Central Myanmar soon. When I say soon, I mean very soon.
AZ: You once made a comment about ethnic revolutionary groups that gained a lot of attention. You said, “You have been in revolution for 70 years just to drink wine.” As the commander of the AA, a prominent ethnic army, what is your view on that comment now?
TMN: Although I spoke the truth, my comment came across as a broad stereotype, which led to criticism and strained some relationships. It was provocative, but it was a reflection of reality. Now, the revolution involves the entire country. Although I wish we could present a unified front, that is not yet possible. Everyone is contributing in their own way. The hope for Myanmar’s transformation is greater than ever before.
AZ: Thank you very much. I have asked my final question – which is quite straightforward – to many people before: Will the revolution succeed?
TMN: We have already seen significant successes, though the outcome may not satisfy everyone. The once arrogant Myanmar Army is now facing humiliating defeats everywhere. They are systematically retreating from one base to another, and soon they may tumble like a row of dominoes. We must also consider the crucial aspect of managing the aftermath. I believe the revolution will achieve notable success, even if the ending may not be ideal for everyone.
AZ: Thank you, General Tun Myat Naing, for answering The Irrawaddy’s questions so patiently.
TMN: I would also like to thank The Irrawaddy.